SPFPP 332: Letting Go of Fear of Success

I’m really feeling gratitude for all the support since dropping last week’s podcast episode. This episode, I share about Letting Go of fear from a personal experience. I value connection and recognize that I had some emotions that, while I’m teaching others how to Let Go, I myself hadn’t fully let go of myself. I’ve come to realize I do in fact have a fear of success. This came up over the weeks I didn’t record another podcast episode because I was actively pursuing funding for SPFPP. It is very likely that my own inner negative emotions of pride and fear really are in the way of me getting funding for SPFPP, and I believe PERHAPS that there’s a parallel there that folks can relate to in their own diagnosis.

I’ll be speaking more about this process of Letting Go from the lens of a herpes diagnosis and doing my best to relate my own experiences throughout this process to you as well. This isn’t necessarily a series, but it’s very useful and I want to be sure that you get from the process at minimum what I’m getting out of this process surrendering my own negative emotions in order to let in the positive. That said, it was in this podcast that I acknowledged my own fear of success in detail being a fear of losing my connection with this community. I know that if I get funding and I’m able to exclusively support myself from that funding, it’s likely to have come from a place that is either out of alignment with my values, or I’ll have to step away from doing the very things I like to do through SPFPP, like we saw with the podcast going on an unannounced hiatus.

I CAN sustain this organization off of donations alone and when the time comes, more aligned funding will present itself. I just had to acknowledge these emotional barriers to let go of my desire to be able to offer more to ya’ll with funding because you are now speaking loud and clear that THIS is the “more” ya’ll need, the podcast. And not only is that something I am capable of giving to you, but it also brings me peace because I feel connected through doing this as well. My intention here is to share the power of Letting Go in my life and selling you on applying it to your own.

Please join our herpes newsletter and learn about the happenings of SPFPP as what’s aligning for me is more podcasting, less social media if I’m being honest. You can just visit the site and you’ll see a pop up asking you to subscribe. Joining the SPFPP membership is going to be your best bet and value to contribute monthly to the organization, access the recordings of the Yoga therapy, live and virtual events coming up, herpes support calls and herpes support groups, and the upcoming conference, so visit SPFPP to learn more!

I’m glad to be back and I feel a new found drive to offer a greater QUALITY of presence vs trying to increase the QUANTITY of it at the expense of the most impactful things. I’m also interviewing people again after May 23, so if you’d like to be a guest on the podcast just fill in the guest intake form.

Episode 332 Transcript

Updates, Upcoming Conferences, and the Power of the Podcast

00:00:00 Courtney Brame: Welcome to Something Positive for Positive People. I'm Courtney Brame. Something Positive for Positive People is a 501c3 nonprofit organization that supports people navigating herpes stigma. Uh we utilize a variety of resources. One of those is this podcast, which thank y'all for listening to it and for being here. Thank y'all for filling out the podcast form on the website if uh you're wanting to be a guest. I have a lot of inquiries that I got to follow back up on as I am now after a little bit of a break. Uh coming back to scheduling interviews, reaching out to people. Um, another thing is the yoga meditation classes. If you are a member of Something Positive for Positive People for as little as $25 a month, you have access to a series of yoga classes. Uh 16 of them will be up after today. Uh and there's going to be a total of 20. These yoga classes and meditations are yin style, which is slow, restorative.

00:01:32 Courtney Brame: It's not super active. You're not going to sweat. You are going to stretch really well and you get to hear me talk through the book Letting Go by David R. Hawkins, which if you don't have, you really should get like this is my number one go-to thing for people who are navigating the complex emotions of herpes stigma. And I also plan to regularly teach classes as soon as this conference ends and I'm settled into my place in New Jersey. That's where I'll be living. I got a spot and uh I'm just waiting on them to send me the lease which should come today and then I sign it, but they got a lot of money for me. So hopefully uh a ain't nothing holding up the process. Uh I'm excited to be in my own place again. Um I've lived with uh a roommate for the past two and a half years and um yeah, it'll be nice. I'll have my own spot.

00:02:31 Courtney Brame: Um, it's pretty big, too, and affordable. Um, I'm gonna turn one the room, the bedroom, uh, I'm I'mma act like it's a studio, right? But then I'm going to turn the bedroom into a podcast recording studio space and the yoga room where I can record uh, yoga classes. I can record my podcast. It's going to be a dope setup, y'all. I'm excited. I'm excited to really dive into running Something Positive for Positive People. Um but yeah, I think that those are the two main things that I want to do with Something Positive for Positive People. Of course, the podcast and um the yoga stu the yoga classes are two things that I've been excited about, passionate about. Um and I think for a while I really did get away from that. I might have mentioned this a little bit in the last episode, but like it's been super validating that people have reached out to me since I posted the previous episode a week ago and shared how useful and helpful the podcast is.

00:03:38 Courtney Brame: So, uh, that was extremely validating for me and it's because I've been doing a lot of things that don't work, right? And I ain't got to go into all of that. If y'all curious, you can hit me up. But um yeah, those are the main two things. Like I also have the conference. The conference is coming up. This has been a really big deal. Uh I'm impressed with the number of people who have been signing up and registering for the conference. We have some other presenters, Dr. Evelin Dacker, who's going to talk about sexual health care and the best practices for taking a stigma-free history in a health care setting. And she's going to talk about STARS. I've got Nikita Fernandez who is a sex therapist and psychotherapist who's going to speak to sexual health and mental health and that whole intersection from the mental health perspective of what navigating stigma from a clinical setting looks like. So, what she's seeing with clients and speaking to the clinical educational perspective.

00:04:38 Courtney Brame: And then we've got Jolene Hernandez who's going to be releasing or screening, not releasing, she's screening the No Shame in This Gamecumentary film. Uh it's a short film, 22 minutes. Um she'll have about 45 minutes to show the documentary and then stick around for Q&A. Uh I was in this documentary if you remember back in 2021, if you've been here that long. Um, I traveled to New York for the first time and I got to be in this documentary with a handful of other people and talk about herpes, herpes stigma. Uh, she put a sign on that said, "I have herpes, ask me anything." And the guys filmed that and you get to see like some random uh, people in New York, come up to this girl who had this sign on and you get to see some of their reactions, right? And um the documentary is just like a really creative and artistic way of demonstrating herpes stigma and just generating awareness and it's such a unique thing and I'm very honored that we get to display that at the Something Positive for Positive People conference.

00:05:44 Courtney Brame: This is the only way you're going to be able to watch that. Uh we can't record this part of the conference and share it and that's why it's not on the flyers. Uh but the registration cost alone is worth that. It's worth that alone. So if you can please attend it. If you are unable to attend and you just want to catch the recording, we will record the conference but we can't record that part because that is a film and uh she screens it very intimately uh with um like film she's in film festivals and it it's the awareness angle that she's taken is phenomenal. So if you for that reason alone want to attend the conference I really believe you should. And then we'll have uh Dakota Rampen who is a tough love relationships coach and sexuality educator. She also makes candles. Um uh GetRealWithDakota.com I believe is going to be the site. Uh it's under construction right now, but you can follow her on Instagram @getrealwithdakota.

00:06:44 Courtney Brame: And um she's going to be presenting on stigma minimization. And uh yeah, she and I have done a presentation for Planned Parenthood before and she assisted me with a different Planned Parenthood uh youth sexuality um presentation for stigma uh in among youth and it was phenomenal. So, I brought her into the conference to take over what would have been my presentation about stigma minimization because now I'm going to be delivering the keynote, which is the data analysis from the 2023 2024 herpes survey. Um, and I'm tailoring my presentation to who signs up. We've mostly got nurses who have signed up. So, I'm going to present the information that's going to be most prevalent to them. Unless I see more people who have Gmail accounts who sign up and uh yeah cuz it's a lot like uh .edu/.org present uh people who are signed up and um yeah I'm looking forward to this y'all. Like this is my first conference and it's the first fundraiser style thing that I've done.

00:07:55 Courtney Brame: Uh once this is done, I'll begin announcing what we're going to be doing September 29th in New York City. It'll be at HitMeUp Space in NYC. Uh and yeah, this is going to be two floors. Just to give y'all an idea cuz y'all on the podcast and ain't nothing in like writing here, but I already reserved the venue. We put the deposit down. Uh we're going to have vendors that will be able to sell things. Well, let me tell y'all what that is going to be about first. So, it's going to be an all day thing. Um, I'll have four workshops that will highlight sort of the spectrum of safety and pleasure, right? And when we think about safety and pleasure, uh, I use the example of when a person brings up STI or if a person brings up condoms that it's perceived to kill the mood, right? So why is it that, you know, we're entering this place of pleasure with one another and then I bring up, oh hey, like let's talk about STI and then someone's like, oh, why you got to bring that up?

00:09:05 Courtney Brame: Like that's killing the mood. What you got something? And then safety becomes threatened, right? So we're exploring the spectrum of pleasure and safety. There isn't a name for the conference yet. I'm working with Jolene Hernandez who is the author or I'm sorry the producer of the No Shame in This Game film on what the title is going to be, how we're going to describe it, how we're going to market it. Uh we'll sell tickets to the event. Uh we're actively seeking sponsors, people who want to donate. We have a big fundraising goal because we want to really make this an experience. Uh we want to do giveaways. We want to have vendors there for free. like we want them to just be able to bring their stuff in there and focus on just adding value and being able to uh offer things to the um conference participants. So, it's two floors as well and the vendors will be like a circle.

00:10:00 Courtney Brame: They will be on the outskirts of the venue selling different things. I don't know what yet. Remember, it's in September. All of the details aren't there, but the skeleton is put together. So, now we're going to layer the rest of the body um around that. But understand that this is going to be an in-person conference. No, this is not exclusively for people with herpes. So, because of that, I'm hoping to draw a more broad crowd. Uh so that it is more of a I don't even want to use the word sex positive. I want to use something different. Uh more pleasure positive. Ooh, pleasure. Positive. I don't think I heard anybody say that. I might have to look into that. All right. Uh, but I would like for people to be able to come here and get STI testing done. Just quick like an HIV test, uh, if you will.

00:10:54 Courtney Brame: Um, whatever can be done with just like a blood test. I don't know if we're going to do anything like swabs and urine samples. Somebody may be able to do that, but we'll see. Um, but I really anticipate that also being a big deal. I want people to come out. Uh it'll be a one-day event and I'll give more information as I have it, but understand that that'll be basically the thing of it. So, think about the virtual conference uh being virtual and more for health professionals and then the in-person conference being more broad and open to the general public. Um yeah, at some point we will talk about STI as a whole. Our presentations are going to cover some fun, sexy, pleasure stuff and some are going to include much more of the practical sexual health information that's necessary. But yeah, those are the announcements. Those are the things that are coming up. And now I'm going to shut up and get into this podcast episode.

The Anatomy of Emotions and "Letting Go"

00:11:58 Courtney Brame: All right, that was a really lengthy intro. Was it 10 minutes? Sure was. All right. uh getting into the topic. So, I want to talk to y'all about letting go. I mentioned the book. I say you should listen to it. I say you should download it. I say you should read it. But I don't know that I've ever really articulated why. And the older I get, the more when people tell me to do things or they tell me about things that are going to be impactful to my life, I recognize that it often takes for me to hear it. multiple times, multiple ways, and over periods of time when I have different experiences that what's been said to me is now more relatable to where I am in life. Okay. So, I've listened to the book Letting Go by David R. talking probably dozens of times at this point and each time there's a part that resonates with exactly where I am in life in those particular moments of time.

00:13:06 Courtney Brame: Now, let me give you my rundown about what letting go is. I recommend two books. Psychocybernetics by Dr. Maxwell Moss. That'll be another episode. And then Letting Go by David R. Hawkins. Okay. What Psychocybernetics does for me is it helps me understand the mind and what letting go by David R. Hawkins does for me is it helps me with understanding the anatomy of emotions. So the shortest version that I can give is that there are negative emotions, there are positive emotions. And in relation to herpes and herpes stigma, which I always have to tie it back to because I want y'all to know like I see you. I don't know where you are in your journey of being diagnosed and navigating stigma, but I see you and I've been there and I've spoken to many people who have also been there. I never want to disconnect from where you are in your diagnosis, right? So, I often go out of my way to try and tie it back.

00:14:20 Courtney Brame: And there will be times that I don't do that. But if you've listened to enough podcast episodes, you know that that's never my intention. This is a podcast that is for, you know, people who are navigating herpes stigma. All right. And there also comes a point where that becomes irrelevant. And with 333 podcast episodes, oh, I think this is 333 or 332, one of those. Um, with this many podcast episodes, you should see an evolution. If I'm still the person who was timidly like voice shaking, not really wanting to say my name on the podcast episode one in 2017, right? And in 2024, then there was no growth. And if you're listening to this podcast and you listen to, you know, a dozen, two dozen, three dozen, a hundred episodes and you're still needing that, then I'm not doing my job, which is prioritizing the growth of the individuals who are coming here. Um, my values are evolution, peace, liberation and all of these stem from my overall purpose of connection and feeling not only connected to myself but also connected to other people who also feel connected to themselves.

00:15:46 Courtney Brame: And this podcast is a way of me embodying that. This is an outlet for me to express my values through integrity, the values of Something Positive for Positive People will always be in line with that. I will always like to be in relationships where I want my significant other to grow. I wanted them to be better. I wanted them to evolve. I wanted them to be liberated. Not in the sense of being able to do whatever you want to do, but knowing and being able to choose what it is that you want to do. and then go on to do it. And it wasn't working in relationships, but I tell you what, it works in podcasting. It works in running a business, right? And what I've learned is that you really just have to find people and environments that uh already value those things or have a willingness to value those things. You can't force that onto anybody.

00:16:41 Courtney Brame: So, I just want to preface everything that I'm about to say with... I acknowledge that you may not be ready to receive what's coming here, but I think that this is a place where you go to get ready. So, tying all of this back into the book Letting Go by David R. Hawkins, it's the anatomy of emotions. All right. So negative emotions um apathy, blame, guilt, shame, um anger, uh pride. These are some of the negative emotions and the more positive ones are courage, neutrality, acceptance, love, joy, peace. Okay? And in order to begin to receive and be in those positive emotional states, we have got to acknowledge and experience and really um express the more negative ones. We have to let them go. And the way that you let go of an emotion is to experience it and express it. What happens is often times when we have a negative emotion, think herpes diagnosis, right? What did you feel when you were first diagnosed?

00:17:57 Courtney Brame: A lot of people can resonate with many of these negative emotions. Uh apathy, hopelessness, depression, anger, uh guilt, shame, pride, right? And these different emotions express themselves through our behaviors in a variety of ways. In a variety of ways. And they all are feelings. And we have so many thoughts about ourselves, but we have so few feelings about ourselves. One feeling can generate thousands of thoughts. And when you begin to examine the emotion behind a thought, you begin to examine the clusters of thoughts surrounding those things. And those clusters of thoughts that we have stem from a feeling that when you look at the thoughts and the feelings really highlight a belief system. And that belief system is something that we probably have no influence over. We probably have no idea what we've been programmed with and how whatever our belief system is has been running us for as long as we can remember. So, we get this diagnosis and we have these negative emotions, right?

The Hard Truths About a Cure and Intentionality

00:19:18 Courtney Brame: And we're in the doctor's office and they tell us, "All right, here's the medication you got to take. Here are some statistics." Those statistics don't really help with anything. And with the medication, most people are fine and most people um it helps. It helps most people to take the medication for herpes. There are a few people that I talked to who the medication doesn't help. There's a few people who I talked to who might help, but like their outbreaks are so reoccurring and the frequency's high and the pain is terrible. There are people who have side effects and one of those side effects is in fact suicide ideation. psycho psych psychotically induced suicide ideation is what uh it's been told to me by a licensed therapist, right? And this is something that can actually happen, which parallels all of the years of uh mental health information that I've gotten from people with herpes that says 33ish% of people become suicidal after their diagnosis. And if we really unpack that, I wonder how much of that has to do with the medication.

00:20:23 Courtney Brame: Don't know. I This is just speculation that it is the medication. Oo, that's a rhyme. I ain't going to make that the episode title. I already decided that this one was going to be uh about letting go and I got to describe that. But um I genuinely believe that we are not going to get a cure for herpes. I'm going to just say it. I'mma just say it. I'm sorry if I shattered somebody's dreams of being able to avoid dealing with the emotions here to avoid having to face the potential of rejection um to avoid disclosing. Uh those are very hard things and those very hard things uh they have gifts for us. Those gifts are the skills of communication, the skills of discernment, the skills of being able to identify what it is you want. Cuz a lot of y'all, and I'mma I'mma steal Dakota's most recent like a very recent post that she made about um like a lot of y'all are why are you practicing why are you going to school for um heart surgery when you want to be a dentist?

00:21:36 Courtney Brame: Like that was the topic of what she was saying. And a lot of people are dating in ways that don't align with the kinds of relationships that they even want in the first place. And I genuinely believe that this is because of unintentionality and the fact that we get this herpes diagnosis, it really shifts us into having to be intentional cuz now we look at that relationship or the sexual encounters that we might have had that we think led to our herpes diagnosis. And so many people have come to me and said, "I didn't even see myself being with this person. I don't even know why I had sex with this person." And a lot of the I don't know is really just I wasn't intentional, you know, and there are a few people I don't want to like I shouldn't have to say this, but there are people who have been in loving consensual relationships with the partner and they knew about the other person's status or maybe they didn't, but they made a choice.

00:22:34 Courtney Brame: And the choice was I knew that I wanted to be with this person. That's intentional. But a lot of people don't want to be with a person and this is just one of the outcomes that occurs. It might have been like a one-time thing, a hookup, and it's cool, but like if you're going to do these things, we got to look at what our intentions are. And so we're now forced to have to sit with and dissect what is my intention? And when you ask yourself, what is my intention? There should be a blank space right after that. And that blank space is that uncomfortable ass silence that a lot of us don't really have experience with because of escaping emotions, repressing emotions, suppressing emotions, and whatever it is, we're not expressing them. Or maybe we are, and it's in a way like projection. That person who we think might have given us herpes, who we might have been unintentional about is a representation of a projection of our own internal beliefs about ourselves.

00:23:38 Courtney Brame: And when we get herpes, that internal belief now becomes external. And now it's real. Now it needs to be dealt with. Now we got to look at what our intentions are. And we got to do something about it. And you can avoid all you want. Like escapism is one of the ways to uh deal with emotions, but it doesn't help because we're energizing the negative emotions that we feel about ourselves. And when we are energizing these negative emotions, we are expressing a lot of our inner strength, our power, and just holding it down. Think about holding down one of those big balloons underwater, right? Like you hold it down, you hold it down, you're getting exhausted, your muscles are tired. If you hold it long enough and then when you let it go, what happens? It floats. Metaphorically, that is precisely what we're doing with the emotions that come after our herpes diagnosis.

00:24:38 Courtney Brame: And uh looking at this survey, I don't want to give too much of this away, y'all, because you really do need to register for the Something Positive for Positive People conference. It's at spf.org/conferences. It's May 23rd virtual. It will be recorded. So, if you register for the conference, you will have access to the recording. I'm going to tell y'all because y'all have been listening for a while. It's going to be expensive if you try and download the replay later. I'm not playing around. I need people at this conference. I got all these health care professionals who are going to be here who are willing to listen to us. And it would be really helpful to have that engagement from people in the community because they don't know about these experiences. So 15% 15% of people who took the Something Positive for Positive People uh survey which was done in collaboration with Utah Valley University um they expressed that a potential trigger for them like they know that they're going to have an outbreak when their emotional health is out of line.

Overcoming Pride and Anger to Find Willingness

00:25:45 Courtney Brame: And as a bonus, there was an option to write in more information. And people said that they know outbreaks are coming when they have had a poor quantity of hours of sleep or poor quality of sleep. That's always a trigger. Those two things are triggers for outbreaks. And emotional support is not something that the doctor is able to give us. The nurse can't always give us emotional support. They just don't have the time. They don't have the bandwidth. They don't have the resources. And also a lot of them don't know what our experiences are with stigma unless they've had experience with working with people who have herpes. And even then their responses can be very dismissive, seeming if we get our diagnosis from them and then they're like, "Oh, oh, it's just herpes. You got it's not a big deal. Here's some medication. Just take this and tell your partners. Uh unless you wear condoms." And believe it or not,

00:26:38 Courtney Brame: like that's what doctors are saying. They're saying you don't have to tell your partners and we don't know this. A lot of us don't know this, right? So, please come to the conference, attend the conference because this helps support the uh experiences that I'm trying to speak to with this survey data, with these presentations, right? I need representation. I need y'all. Like, this podcast has an average of 10,000 subscribers. That's 10,000 people who are listening to this podcast on a regular basis. Uh, whether you are subscribed or not, it shows me that this many people repeatedly listen to podcast episodes. So yeah, we don't have like uh this many actual subscribers, but fortunately I get data that says otherwise because I wonder if people listen to this? Does anybody listen? And then when I dropped that podcast last week, um I Yes, people are listening and so thank y'all.

00:27:42 Courtney Brame: Thank y'all for doing that. Okay. Uh, staying on topic here. Um, the reason I brought up the emotional support and I brought up the sleep is because also like this letting go series in combination with yoga, the yin style of yoga, yin yoga helps people with sleep and we see that if sleep is a trigger for outbreaks, like even last night I I was tired, y'all. I taught a class at 6:00 and then I did my own little yoga uh at about 9 10:00 and I crashed right after and I slept through the night. Like lately I've been waking up. I have to pee after like five or six hours of laying down. And I also didn't pee right before bed. I was so tired. I was like I don't want to go downstairs, man. So what I did was I just got into the bed, went to sleep. I woke up at 4 am.

00:28:35 Courtney Brame: So, I slept for a solid six, seven hours before I had to get up and go pee. And then I got an email that upset me. Um, but that's another conversation. So, I had to deal with that. Um, yoga, meditation, yin style restorative in combination with the book letting go. This is my formula for managing not just the emotions of a herpes diagnosis and the stigma of it, but also physical symptoms because now it's on paper. Now we've got data. We got data that shows that people are experiencing outbreaks related to their lack of sleep and the lack of emotional support. And these are two things that I do. Hi, I'm Courtney. uh between the podcast being the psy the emotional support resource like hearing people's experiences right and then now me like I've offered support I talk to people that conversation has been my yoga practice and I'm now actually you know utilizing that if for those who don't know I have a 500 hour uh yoga teacher certification and I got accepted it into yoga therapy school.

00:29:56 Courtney Brame: So, yay, I'll be able to more scientifically apply this and um put things together to be able to help people who are navigating herpes stigma with plans that can help with their uh not just the stigma, but also outbreaks maybe. Hopefully, we'll see. I'm learning how to apply these things. So, I'm going to do a bunch of reading today after I upload this podcast. Um, and yeah, I'm integrating the things that I found to be the most valuable for myself into Something Positive for Positive People. Like, for years, y'all, I've been trying to get therapists on board with working with people with herpes, but they I've I've just not been able to I'm not going to go into details. Like, it just is not happening. And I've tried to bring people in to do the very things that I just haven't recognized that I'm capable of myself. And I've not accepted that until now, until very recently. Now, for whatever reason, and maybe it's because I had to let go of my own emotions around my own diagnosis and what that means.

00:31:06 Courtney Brame: And like I have this, you know, pride in myself that, and this is a negative emotion as well, this pride that I've had to let go of of my experience being so different that I feel like I'm unable to share my experiences and connect with y'all because I'm past that. Because I'm open about my status. I do have different experiences and they might not always be relatable to y'all. And because of my dating style or relationship style being so different from the general population, it feels like sharing my experiences more so has always felt like bragging than me sharing it for the sake of helping. So this is an example of something that I've had to let go of because underneath pride there's like anger. There's an anger of I mentioned connection being you know the core of my like purpose, passion or whatever. I love to connect and for so long I guess I've just felt disconnected and harboring some resentment and anger toward not just myself but also like even the people that I work with to serve in this space and like that's a real hard thing to say.

00:32:21 Courtney Brame: It's a really hard thing to say to that um I've been angry at, you know, this community of people who I feel don't support me, right? And how can I feel that way when I do get the messages that validate that, you know, what I'm doing is fulfilling what my intention is. My intention is just to help. My intention is to heal people or support them in their own healing. I can't just, you know, heal people, but my intention is to support people through their own healing process of navigating herpes stigma. And I had to sit with that. I had to sit with that anger. I had to sit with that resentment. I had to sit with that pride. And I realized how much of the things that I've posted, how much of some of these podcast episodes have in fact been expressions of pride. uh well anger underneath the guise of pride like yeah I love what I do right but that's that me saying that comes from a different place now of love before I was prideful in what I was doing I was proud of what I was doing and that with pride there's like this secret desire and desire is a lower emotion for recognition even if it it's not like asking for it.

00:33:42 Courtney Brame: So there was a part of me that just like I don't tell people what I do because other people should tell people what I do. Other people should talk about how amazing I am for the work that I'm doing, right? But then, you know, I hear that and I hear how amazing I am and what work I'm doing. And then on the other hand of that, I'm like, damn. Like, well, if you appreciate it so much, like, why aren't you contributing here? Whether that be donations or your own podcast uh episode or reach out for these support calls and make donations, right? That's where I was from a negative place. And now having experienced that and having to be real with myself, it was uncomfortable, y'all. It was very uncomfortable, right? And pride for me may not look like pride for you in relation to herpes. So, just to give you an example, uh which I do this on the letting go uh yoga series.

00:34:34 Courtney Brame: So, become a member for as little as $25 a month. You get access to these yoga classes. you get uh access to the conference as well as uh other events that come up. So members, I'm hooking y'all up, man. If you really rock with me and you've been rocking with me since day one or you've been committed enough to make monthly contributions, I don't take that lightly, right? Like me, I'm looking to give. And I think that the biggest difference between the lower emotions and the higher more positive emotions versus the negative ones is we're looking to gain from a place of the negative states, right? And when I started to look at my pride, I recognized it did get me angry. And anger is what we often need in order to project ourselves into more positive emotions. Because now once we're willing to look at anger, that's willingness. Willingness is a positive emotion and it takes courage to do such a thing.

00:35:32 Courtney Brame: Courage is like the shift uh between before um it's the shift the gateway between negative emotions and positive emotions. Whoa, my stomach growling. I'm hungry. Uh excuse me. Um, and that shift between the negative and positive emotions is powerful because this is where we start to receive the positive because we're letting go of the negative. And so what pride might look like is, oh, you know, I'm only going to date people who have herpes. And that's a prideful statement. And underneath that might be the anger that you can't date people who don't have herpes. Um, not that you can't, but you won't. And another thing that's common throughout the book, letting go by David R. Hawkins is the statement I can't versus I won't. We're in I can't when we're in those negative emotions. But when we have a willingness to look at these emotions and are encouraged to do something about it, we discover that I can't really I won't.

00:36:35 Courtney Brame: And I'm bro, this podcast is a gem. This is a gem because I believe that this is in fact the secret to healing what herpes does to us psychologically and emotionally. So all this talk about cures, I don't see one. I don't see it coming. Like all the money that's being thrown at herpes cure research, I don't see pharmaceutical companies having any intention of allowing for there to be a cure for herpes. Even with the few cases of people who have these uh long-standing chronic conditions uh reoccurring outbreaks like all they will do what makes sense like if I'm if I'm making a lot of money off selling herpes medication it does not make sense for me to sell a cure or allow for a cure to exist. Think about how many people get diagnosed and they jump on medication, right? Like and then going to the psychoinduced, you know, negative emotions, right? Like you can be manipulated from a state of uh these negative states of emotion.

00:37:46 Courtney Brame: And this might actually be what is happening. It could be what's happening. I ain't going to like to sit up here and say that um I'm not going to sit up here and say that like I don't believe that this is possible because I mean we see it in movies. I see it in video games where the perceived good guy with good intentions is actually the villain in the story, right? And I mean you could even say that about me because what happens to me when herpes stigma goes away? I know I'm gonna be all right, but at the end of the day, like I'm doing this to not be needed. I would love for Something Positive for Positive People to not be necessary. And then what I'll do is just apply what I've learned through this to something else. And that's what courage looks like. And y'all got to be willing to relinquish that and let go of that pride of, oh, I'm only going to sleep with people who have herpes.

00:38:41 Courtney Brame: I'm a great standing citizen because I'm not going to pass this on to anyone. Right? We got to let that go because underneath that is really this anger that we don't feel confident to disclose our status to a partner. We don't feel confident that we can deal with the intensity of rejection. Let's be real, right? Like I'm talking to people who have gotten to that place of courage, who are disclosing, who are having the kind of sex that they want. And now there's new obstacles, new challenges. That's what life is supposed to be. Life is supposed to be new obstacles and challenges for us. And we approach them with the understanding that that's what life is supposed to be. I don't know what kind of life some of y'all have had to where you think that you just supposed to have this seamless free, seamless conflict-free life. Like the entitlement there is real y'all. And I think that when we get this herpes diagnosis and we're in a state of not we're in a state that we haven't been in before emotionally.

Facing the Fear of Success and Moving Forward

00:39:56 Courtney Brame: Our society has been set up for emotional avoidance. The media that comes in is keeping us from connecting with our own natural state of being. We got our phones that are on us all the time. Like we listen to this podcast. It's likely that you're probably doing something else. You might be scrolling social media. You might be messaging somebody, right? Like we are not present. And I believe that letting go of emotions requires presence. And the more you do a thing, the better you get at it. So, if you're someone who wants a relationship, but you're just like you want to be in a relationship, but you're dating a lot of people, you're dating around, like you're getting really good at dating, and it's probably at the expense of your relationship skills. I learned that myself. That's something that I had to learn. It's like, I'm not good at dating. I don't want to be good at dating.

00:40:56 Courtney Brame: I want to be good at my relationship. And so when dating, I was bringing relationship stuff to my dates. And the more of that I did, the better I got at relationships despite people dating being, you know, unable to receive that. But that just showed me, okay, you're unable to receive me as I am. And it's uncomfortable, but you got to get okay with that because let me would have succumbed to the rules of dating in 2024, right? If I would have just gone into it that way, if I would have just gone into that, then what would have happened was I would have got better at dating. And then when the person or people who wanted a relationship with me as well came into the picture, I would have been doing dating s***. In fact, like the relationships that I've had since being intentional about going into entering a relationship, um they there's like a grace period, not even a grace period, but there's this period of time where you go from dating to now you're in a relationship and you might bring things from dating into the relationship that do not work in relationships.

00:42:15 Courtney Brame: And going back to what I said earlier about, you know, wanting to be a dentist but practicing heart surgery, it's the same thing. You got to commit, be consistent, and like know, hey, this is what I'm doing. This is what I want to be doing. And intentionality is something that our herpes diagnosis brings up. And it brings that up to us, for us. That's what this is about. It's about intentionality. What do you want? What do you choose? And as we go through this process of letting go and we listen to this book, we learn that the real difference between negative emotions and positive emotions is just choice, right? Intentionality. So we might be unintentional in those negative states of emotion and then once we become aware, it's now a choice. We choose to stay there. We choose not to let go. And when we start letting go, we we see things.

00:43:14 Courtney Brame: I have examples from the yoga classes. Uh in the yoga classes, if you uh go ahead and head over to Something Positive for Positive People's website, spfpp.org/membership, and sign up today. And when you sign up, you'll have access to these classes. You'll have access to the ongoing yoga classes that I'll be teaching um once I'm settled into my place in the middle of May. Uh let's just say June. June is when I'll start to regularly teach yoga classes. Uh I'll have a schedule that I stick to so that I can be and remain consistent because y'all this is what I'm doing. I'm doing this. I am ending the stigma by… and I don't even want to say ending... I am minimizing stigma in the people who choose to prioritize that for themselves by exclusively running Something Positive for Positive People. And I've had so many days where I'm scared. I'm scared. I'mma be honest, y'all.

00:44:15 Courtney Brame: I'mma tell y'all the truth. I'm scared as f*** to run this organization by myself and do this full-time and only do this. So like that fear is a negative emotion. But you know what? I got to let that s*** go. I got to let it go because damn. Oh my god. I just got one of those. And this is emotional, okay? So, prepare yourself because I know how people get uncomfortable with people like crying around me. And if that happens here, like I, we going to leave it in. I'm not editing this podcast. I am afraid. I'm fearful. Not of failing, not of succeeding so well that I go out of business. I'm not afraid of becoming homeless, but there's a fear of me exclusively running Something Positive for Positive People that I have to face. And I have to face this because again once you go from negative emotions I can't to I can in the positive state, right?

00:45:24 Courtney Brame: Like you, you see things differently. My fear is that now it's hard to just say out loud. My fear is not what if it fails. My fear is what if this works. My fear is what if I succeed? What if I become so successful, right? What if I do end stigma because of minimizing its effects so much on the people who are affected by it that I'm no longer needed. What if I run Something Positive for Positive People full time? What if I'm able to, you know, put myself in a position where I yeah, I can live off of the funding that would come in in the event that that happens. But I'm not focused on that anymore. Like now I'm getting back to the basics. And the basics being what really brings me joy. What I love about this is I love talking to y'all. I love hosting this podcast.

00:46:55 Courtney Brame: I love teaching the yoga classes. And I've put up a few, you know, boundaries here uh to to make it to where there's more safety for people to get involved with the community things. Like me, I'm very much pushing the memberships if you can't tell us to have, you know, this community regardless of how long-term, short-term it is. Uh, being able to have community, the support groups, the calls, the conversations, the yoga, all of that. That's what I'm pushing for. And it took me just saying that just now to recognize how threatening that is to the bigger picture Courtney who feels connected by connection. Like I'm again evolution, liberation, peace. These are my values and I feel these when I am connected to people and I have this infinite constantly growing network of people that I can connect to and connect with and if I become successful in running Something Positive for Positive People full-time, I believe that the way that I would have to become successful would be for me to I don't want to say sell out, but sell out in a way.

00:48:23 Courtney Brame: And in selling out, that means that I have to do things that don't allow for me to stay connected to this community and the people who are in it. I might sound really far away. My apologies, y'all. I let it get away from me and I wasn't paying attention cuz I my eyes started watering a little bit and I just I wasn't looking. Um, so hopefully you heard everything that I just said and that you're hearing what I am now, what I'm saying now. But I think about, you know, the conversations that I've had, like I've had conversations with people that I would never connect with. I would never talk to some of y'all and some of y'all would never talk to me if we cross paths in our day-to-day life if it wasn't for herpes. Let's be real, right? Like I'm a straight Black dude, like as straight as they come. And I've, you know, wondered and questioned. I've hoped I was queer.

00:49:16 Courtney Brame: I'm not. And I've had conversations with members of the LGBT community uh and learned so much from just these conversations with people that I would have never even talked to. I've found like very connecting pieces of myself and other people uh who are into the same weird s*** I am. I love anime. I love cartoons. I love the depth of them. And I've connected with people over the years who have those same common interests. I've connected with people who give a f*** about things that not a lot of people give a f*** about. Like I played sports for damn near half my life. And I don't watch sports. I I don't give a f*** about sports anymore, y'all. What I care about is this. I care about connection. I care about being connected to. I care about the peace, the evolution, and the liberation not just of myself, but of the community that I serve and what feels like, you know, my my purpose, right?

00:50:22 Courtney Brame: And it's very difficult for me to let go of this fear that I have of actually becoming successful because of what I believe that looks like. And I got to let go of what my beliefs are about success and what that looks like because all right, yeah, you know, I do this and I just take donations, right? Like that's one pathway of doing that. But I do this and I get funding from, you know, someone or sponsors whose messaging completely conflicts with what my beliefs and my values are for the sake of being able to make a living. And if I go that route and I make that decision, I'm no longer connected to it. So now, you know, we talk about prioritization, right? When you prioritize herpes stigma over what's really important to you, you fuel herpes stigma. This runs your life and you're miserable. And now, like, as someone who, and I have to deal with this, I have to challenge this belief for myself.

00:51:29 Courtney Brame: As someone who, you know, if I go off and I make a lot of money, I'm going to have to do a lot of things that aren't the things that I want to be doing. And I got a taste of that when you see that gap between the last podcast episode and the one before that. During that time, I was prioritizing things that make money. And these things did make money. But f***, man. Like, I missed this. And it ain't nothing like this, man. There's nothing like this. Like, this podcast is unique in itself. And I hate that, you know, I don't have sponsors. I hate, you know, I do. I have a sponsor. Like they're not I want to say they're not real sponsors, but like the conference has sponsors, but the podcast doesn't. And this is like the most useful thing that anyone with herpes has. And I turned my back on this s*** for a minute.

00:52:28 Courtney Brame: Like I was like, "Oh, no, no, that's not that's not what people that's not what I need." And it was masked underneath, "This isn't what you need. This isn't what people need. People need community. People need uh for me to be more visible. People need me to be able to do these things for them. They don't need the podcast. Like this was what I was telling myself. And then to receive messages after the last podcast episode of how important this is. Someone even told me like I mentioned before, you know, that they were disappointed that there was another podcast episode. And I have to and had to let go of the belief that just because I put out another podcast episode, that doesn't mean that you have to listen to it. It's there for you. And I I felt that I was enabling people to not move on. I felt like I was enabling people to be stuck here in this cycle of listening to Something Positive for Positive People podcast episodes rather than going off and applying what they're learning here and living their life.

00:53:39 Courtney Brame: And I I just said it the the f****** answers there in what I said earlier. I've listened to the book letting go dozens of times and I had to hear the same thing over and over and over and over again while doing the work for myself. and then sometimes things would click. So for me to have been able to know that and say that about myself and not, you know, have the same grace for this community and the people who listen to the podcast, like that's very hypocritical. I was hypercritical. That's very hypocritical. And so this fear of success that I have and have probably always had continues to manifest. I be having these dreams, y'all. And this the dream is a reoccurring dream. I I played football through middle school, high school, college. And I constantly have flashbacks of for some reason not getting in the game. Uh whether I left something or I'm just on the sideline or the coach won't put me in. Right.

00:54:42 Courtney Brame: And I believe that this dream uh that reoccurs has been evolving especially over the last few weeks because it's me not being in the game at all to me getting in the game to me, you know, almost making a play and me not really trusting myself is what the theme is. Like when you play a sport, you have a team and each team member has a role when they're in the game. So my role is always going to be to, you know, 11 different people in football can have the opportunity to quote make a play, right? And the overall goal of football is score more points than the other team, don't let them score. So I play defense, don't let them score. And that generally revolves in making a tackle fast. I would more often set up my teammate to make the tackle rather than take the risk of making the play myself and then not making the tackle. There was a lot of that when I was there when I didn't trust myself.

00:55:59 Courtney Brame: And I keep having this dream because now in hindsight like that's what it was. When I didn't play, when I wasn't in the game, I didn't trust myself. And my most recent dream was me in the game almost making a play. And I think that this dream correlates to my waking life. I am trusting myself and coming back to this podcast and leaning into my career as a future yoga therapist and utilizing yoga as a healing mechanism and support resource for people navigating herpes stigma. Y'all, I've got um I had 200 people… 200 people a day have been visiting Something Positive for Positive People's website. I don't know if they're getting what they need. I have like a information page, the FAQ page, which has like a lot of common questions people have and things that link to other parts of the website, but there's 200 people a day who are finding Something Positive for Positive People, which means a lot more people are searching for it, and it's just not as visible as it can be.

00:57:06 Courtney Brame: And me leaning into this full-time means making this more visible. It means uh capturing more people into the space and potentially getting them involved with the community. And so I have the opportunity to be extremely successful at Something Positive for Positive People. But that means nothing if I don't feel connected to my dreams where I wasn't in the game. I think that those were correlating with me doing those things to generate funding opportunities so that I can sustain myself rather than me just trusting and coming from this loving place y'all and of love and gratitude for y'all like trusting me like y'all trust me. Why the f*** don't I trust me? I should be here on a weekly basis. I can do this once a week. I can do this once a week. Give y'all something to look forward to. Put the work in, have these conversations, and I have a running list of podcast guests that I'm going to reach out to after the conference.

00:58:15 Courtney Brame: Right now, my focus has to be on the conference, but after last week when I recorded that podcast, I felt so f****** good, y'all. Like, I felt like a person that came home to themselves. You know how some of y'all women, I know y'all can relate. Y'all come home from a long ass day at work. You take that bra off and you just throw it over the back of the couch and you just go guys who might work in manual labor. You get home, you take them boots off and you're like crack open that beer. I'm talking like I'm… I'm talking to somebody. I don't know who, but I'm talking to somebody when I say that. Um that's what this is for me. this podcast like the podcasting I get to talk like it's uncomfortable sometimes to just talk about myself and my experiences but I think that I have a purpose in doing that and apparently I'm pretty good at it oh my god it's been almost an hour I hope y'all got something out of this letting go letting go is important letting go of emotions if you get nothing else out of Um, I'm in the process of creating some type of ebook.

00:59:29 Courtney Brame: Uh, I've been writing a book since June last year. And don't laugh, y'all. I'm laughing at it cuz I'm throwing the whole thing out. And what I'm going to do instead is sort of, I don't know what type of copyright issues I'm going to have to deal with or run into, but letting go for people with herpes. So you can download the book like that's going to be useful. Excuse me the book Letting Go by David R. Hawkins great book like I'm going to shout them out and everything. Um and then I'm creating a book. I'm working with a publisher now who we're going to put together this letting go book for people with herpes and it's going to be I'm not going to say it'll be in alignment with what I'm doing with the yoga classes cuz I'm just like reading the book again and I'm taking notes that I want to speak to the herpes community the people who have herpes who find themselves in our yoga classes right like I that's what I do that's what the uh letting go yoga series for Something Positive for Positive People was that was the goal of it.

01:00:43 Courtney Brame: And now um I'm wanting to put that into some type of a book to give people like a tangible thing. We can throw some statistics in there. We can share some testimonials as well. Um but this is going to be a great thing. It's going to be a project that I'm working on after the conference uh in May. um because I'll be able to do it fairly quickly now that I've taught the yoga classes, I have my notes, and really I just need to go in and clean things up, add some testimonials, put some of the charts from the survey in there, and we will be good, man. We got a thing that people can come to and get and then go on about their business, right? I wanted to condense the podcast into a book. I wanted to do all these different things, but it's not necessary. This podcast is its own thing, and I look at it as the fundraising tool for the organization, but also like my own outlet for creative expression.

01:01:43 Courtney Brame: So, I'm letting go like I got I got f****** like tears in my eyes. I am letting go of my fear of success. Fear is the underlying thing in all of the negative emotions, y'all. And I have a fear of losing the connections that I've the connection the connectedness like I'm people come and go all the time, but like that doesn't stop me from feeling connected to, you know, even if I hear from somebody one time, like it it feels good to be able to help people. I have a process for helping people now though. Like I I asked that if you um have questions, if you want to have a conversation, if you have a question that you please go to the one-on-one support offering, the don uh one-on-one support call page on the site and that you reach out through there, make a donation, and then we can set up a time to talk. Um, but I really want people to feel comfortable and confident becoming members of the site so that we can engage more with the community.

01:02:53 Courtney Brame: Like I can answer your questions. I can give you exactly what you need in order to move forward. Um, you can also just come and do it. But I'm wanting community so that different people with different experiences so that y'all can give what y'all give me. Different people give me so many different things. that I think that if the space is there and is facilitated for people collectively to show up in community, it's going to be then I put myself out of business, but I will also have this community that I will always be connected to and that's kind of part of the draw for me moving to New York. like I've felt like there's more possibility and potentiality of connecting on a regular basis out there. Um and having this community be more solid, be more firm, right? Um, I believe in it. I believe in this. I believe in us. I believe in y'all.

01:03:54 Courtney Brame: And yeah, we got this. Even if uh I just got the idea of like a monthly New York social like Yeah. But I got to get donations though. So, uh, visit www.spfpp.org/donate to contribute to all these crazy ass ideas I got. I already paid the publisher for the book stuff. That s*** was expensive. But, um, yeah, I'm going to just start asking for the things that I need. Uh, a lot of it all really revolves around money, but I can do a better job of telling you what I would like money for. Um, so if someone like I put the deposit down for the venue uh at the Something Positive for Positive People conference on September 29th in New York City. Um, it was $1,800. The total was $1,800. I only paid $700 for it. So if somebody wants to exclusively sponsor the venue, like that's $1,800.

01:04:55 Courtney Brame: If someone in New York City knows of a food place that wants to donate like a food truck to the event, it's indoors. It's on the fifth and sixth floor of the building that we'll be in. It's on a Sunday. It's going to be all day. We'll need someone with like breakfast brunchy food for the morning half and then for the afternoon evening we'll need someone for like lunch dinner type food. Um, if someone is capable of catering that, uh, that would be dope. Um, we're looking for vendors. So, if you're in New York City and you're some type of creative person, entrepreneur, and you happen to have herpes, like, I want to support you. I want to support this community. It is also Latin Heritage Month, uh, Hispanic Heritage Month. Ooh, whichever. I'm sorry if I butchered that, but I was talking to Jolene about this. So, it's September 15th through October 15th.

01:05:51 Courtney Brame: If you are someone who, you know, especially are Hispanic, uh, I would love to have you be or get first priority to vending here. All of our presenters are of Hispanic descent. Uh, Dr. Evelin Molina Dacker, um, Dakota, uh, Steph Zapata, and, uh, Jordan, uh, Jordan Denell Jones. These are our presenters. And it's all women, too, man. Cuz she's going to be doing the documentary showing. I'm the only minority again. But uh yeah, these are all just some of the things if you want to support the conference. We'll also need volunteers, too, uh for the in-person conference. So, I'll be sharing more on the podcast like this. I'm over social media, y'all. I ain't going to lie to you. I'm over it. So, y'all might get more podcast episodes as a result of me being over social media. So, uh it's Tuesday.

01:06:58 Courtney Brame: I'm posting this podcast episode today. I'm actually going to take a little nap cuz I woke up at 4:00 and it's almost 6 now. And I think that little that little spurt of vulnerability right there, y'all, that that was real for me. So, I'm I'm This is what I'm working on. So, as I go through these yoga classes, I'm working on myself letting go of my fear of success and the other fears that I have. Um, that's really it. Like, it's a fear of success. So, I'm working on letting it go. Join me on this journey. Visit spf.org/membership and you can start taking the classes virtually. The recordings are available uh to members only. And then you can join us for the last couple of classes that we have. Uh once you join, I'll give you access to the schedule so you can join me live. It's a different experience when you join live.

01:07:55 Courtney Brame: I just tell you that. And then um yeah, yoga classes are going to be a regular thing. Events you'll get in free for whatever you're paying per month. Like that you being a member of the Something Positive for Positive People community gets you into our workshops that we host. It gets you into our community events. to get you into the conferences that we'll have uh for free. So yeah, come come rock with your boy, man. I'm working on leaning into not just what's working and what's impactful, but what feeds me. This feeds me this podcast, man. Like I, I enjoy this so much. And I enjoy teaching the yoga classes. I also enjoy talking to y'all. What I don't enjoy is applying for grants. I don't enjoy the politics of, "Oh, are you an uh LGBT BIPOC community server?" Like, no, I serve everybody. Like, herpes don't give a f*** who you have sex with.

01:08:51 Courtney Brame: Herpes don't give a f*** what your skin color is, your income, tax bracket, your geographical location. Herpes don't care about none of that s***. And here I am pursuing funding opportunities that like I have to ninja my way through that communication. I'm I'm over that s***, man. If it happens, great. It happens. Wow. See, that was me letting go. I just let go of my desire for funding. Uh because I know that this will run off of this and can run off of the donations alone. And I'mma stand by that. And I'm doing it. This is what I'm doing. So, join me in this letting go process. Um, I hope that this was all, you know, full circle. Uh, there's not going to be a cure for herpes. Uh, if I'm wrong, yay. Like, great. A lot of you are going to be very happy.

01:09:45 Courtney Brame: Uh, I have no desire for a cure for myself. I think that what we need is better testing. I think we need people to get tested on a regular basis by the same test that says yes, you have herpes. No, you don't have herpes. One of those two things. It either says positive or negative. None of that 09 or one point whatever. None of that s***. Just tell me if I got herpes or not and tell people that they are not being tested for herpes. These are immediate actionable steps that will minimize the impacts of stigma. And also like more people find out that they have herpes. And then Courtney gets more of that feeling of connectedness through people being willing to show up in the community stuff that I want to plan and come to the yoga classes and like to have these support groups, right? That's what I see. That's what I foresee happening.

01:10:38 Courtney Brame: All right. um men who have herpes reach out to me because I want to start to uh put together a men's support group like her men with herpes support group and then a general herpes support group. So those two things and then the yoga classes are regular events that I'm going to start to put on and then I'll be hosting workshops through Something Positive for Positive People for our members and for people to make a big donation in order to be able to attend. So, it's either going to be frequently uh contribute right now which is at minimum $25 a month and you get access to everything that is on the page and what I mentioned here. Uh that's minimum. And then like I'm I'm making myself less accessible on social media and to the general public because I'm again wanting to deepen the connection. And so the podcast is for everybody, but membership like you get a greater quality of connectedness to Courtney. All right. So letting go and I'm letting go of my fear of success and we need to make this thing happen y'all. This is this s***'s happening. I'm running Something Positive for Positive People. Let's f****** go. Uh, please like, rate, review, share, subscribe to the podcast. Actually, like more than ever, I need y'all to share this podcast cuz as I'm I'm committing to this s*** now. And I'm not asking a lot. I'm asking for donations. I'm asking y'all to now just share this podcast. You ain't got to share it publicly. You can just share with the people around you. The yoga classes, you can share those. If you're somebody in the health care field, uh, fight for yoga therapy to get paid for by insurance because in two and a half years, uh, I'll be able to offer yoga therapy, not just teaching the yoga classes, uh, and private sessions or whatever, but like yoga therapy. All right, till next time.

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