SPFPP 336: Disclosing for a lover
In episode 336 of Something Positive for Positive People, titled "Disclosing for a Lover," we delve into the complex dynamics of non-monogamous relationships where herpes is present. This discussion explores how individuals can ethically disclose their partner’s herpes status to new potential partners, ensuring privacy and respect are maintained. We unpack the challenges of navigating such disclosures without outing the person they represent, offering practical advice and insights for managing this sensitive situation with integrity and care. Tune in to hear from experts and community members who share their experiences and strategies for ethical communication in non-monogamous settings.
Episode 336 Transcript
Approaching the SPFPP Herpes Stigma Conference
00:00:00 Courtney Brame: Hello, welcome to Something Positive for Positive People. I'm Courtney Brame. Something Positive for Positive People is a 501c3 nonprofit organization that supports people navigating herpes stigma. If you want to get a real inside look at what that looks like, join us next Thursday, May 23rd, as we celebrate the fifth year of Something Positive for Positive People as a nonprofit organization. We are going to have four presentations on different aspects of herpes stigma as well as present the survey data from the 2023 2024 survey and a special surprise documentary screening from the No Shame in this game film which was produced by or created by Jolene Hernandez. Um the conference if you can't attend it will be recorded except for the documentary screening. Y'all, I'm really excited. I'm really excited to be doing this and um I've been saying um data analysis for the conference as I'm going to be presenting the survey but I'm really going to be just giving descriptive statistics like I'm describing the statistics of the survey findings.
00:02:43 Courtney Brame: So everything from uh people's uh what they've expressed about their outbreaks uh their symptoms, treatments, mental health, uh health care provider interactions as well as uh the mental health side and even things about disclosure. So uh attend that conference if you are able to. You can register at www.xp www.sp.org/conferences. Um, all right. Now, I'm going to just stop it there and I'm going to get into the podcast episode cuz I think these last few times have turned into really long advertisements. But, um, before I forget, please subscribe to the newsletter. When you go to the website, you'll be able to just see the popup that says subscribe to our newsletter. If for any reason you don't see that, go to the contact page, scroll to the bottom, and then you'll be able to uh just put in your name and email address, and that's where you'll see the things that I would normally post on social media. Okay. Now, uh the title of this one's uh disclosing for a lover.
The Ethics of Disclosing for a Partner
00:03:53 Courtney Brame: And when I say disclosing for a lover, uh I I bring this up because it's come up a few times. So last night before I went to bed, I wrote an article for the p****** Sexual Wellness Center on the perspective of a person who might be non monogamous who's with someone who has herpes and they also have other partners. Now, do you think that person has to disclose their status to their partner even if they test negative and have not had symptoms? Yes or no? Right? So, just imagine you're in a relationship, right? You have herpes. You have a partner who to date does not have herpes, right? They want to go out with somebody. They're wanting to have sex with that person. And the question is, do you think that that person needs to say that they're having sex with someone who has herpes? You. So, this question came up again today. I had a one-on-one support call, which if you are someone who needs a call, if you have issues with disclosing or navigating your stigma, your status, please don't hesitate to reach out.
00:05:04 Courtney Brame: Um, I offer those on a donation basis. You just make a donation and when it comes through, we set up the call. Simple as that. But, uh, today that came up in conversation with someone who is dating, someone who's non monogamous. And uh I won't. I don't need to tell that whole story cuz it was we had a three-hour conversation. Like I talked to her while I was driving to the gym when I couldn't find a spot. I drove to another gym. I took my pre-workout. I did my workout. And we stayed on the phone up until I needed to ask the people at the register uh how I go about signing up. And the the point of this uh me bringing that conversation up is because you know that came up again like how would someone feel about their partner not disclosing that they're having sex with someone who has herpes. And part of that, there's this itty bitty teeny teeny tiny part that makes me think that the person who has herpes may want for their partner who might not have herpes to disclose to anyone that they're going to have sex with almost to sort of share that burden, share the weight of the diagnosis of their status, right?
00:06:17 Courtney Brame: Because if I have to disclose and people are less likely to want to have sex with me, right? like what? You know, if you're having sex with me, just because you don't have symptoms doesn't mean you haven't been exposed to a virus. And as we always say, herpes is a tricky virus. So, who's to say that you don't have symptoms or like you're not someone who has the virus, you know, living in you. You just haven't had an expression of it yet. Meaning, you could potentially still pass it on, right? So, we don't have any solid science on that. Like my whole thing is, you know, once you have an outbreak or once you have symptoms, then you know, but before that, you just don't know. And it's not fair for everybody in the world to be like, "Hey, I might have herpes. You okay with that?” if they don't know their status. But I mean, essentially, as the person who's dating someone who has herpes, and you know this, you might have a little bit of a responsibility to uh give whoever else you're sleeping with that choice ethically.
00:07:19 Courtney Brame: Now, I don't see anybody asking, you know, people will ask, "Do you have an STI?" No, great. Let's move forward. But I don't see them asking if you're seeing someone who has an STI, right? Like how do we bring that into the conversation? And then is it your place to even disclose on behalf of said partner? Can you do that? Right? Like how do you know that they don't want people to know? And then you know when you even go down that rabbit hole of thinking you don't have to say it's this particular partner. You can just say hey I've had sex with someone who has herpes. I've not shown any symptoms. I haven't tested positive, but I just wanted to let you know because there's a risk. And I think that what that does too is it demonstrates a level of, you know, safety, emotional and physical, you know, accountability, but emotional uh intelligence to, you know, offer up that, you know, if you do possibly get herpes, it could be for me because this is a huge emotional thing.
00:08:23 Courtney Brame: Um, and the response that we can have to a diagnosis, I mean, as people who are listening to this podcast know, right, it can be devastating and it's shocking and it can be embarrassing. It can be a lot of different feelings all at one time. And with the exception of the people who are in a discord relationship where, you know, the person who's negative gets it and they're like, "Finally, like, now that we got that out of the way, dot dot dot." Um, it it it sucks, you know, to say the least. When you get diagnosed with herpes, it sucks over time. It doesn't suck as much. It might even become a fun, you know, thing to laugh and when you look back on it, it may lead you to your ideal relationship. It may lead you down a path of self-discovery and healing. You like, we don't know. We don't know. But my thought process about disclosing for a partner, um, I think everything really does come down to intention.
00:09:24 Courtney Brame: Is your intention of disclosing on behalf of your partner? I can't even say that that sounds right. But if you are someone who doesn't have herpes and you're seeing someone who does have herpes and you want to see other people, then I think that I would like to be given that choice. I would like to have been given that choice. So um the way to go about doing it is just leave out the details. You don't have to say who it is. If you are someone who is in a a non monogamous, you know, relationship or relationships, all you got to do is say, you know, hey, I have a partner who is HSV positive. Um I'm just letting you know because of how that works. You got any questions about that? So disclosing a disclosure is really like a tricky thing, right? Because how do you even respond to that? If somebody told you that they're having sex with someone who has herpes but they don't have it, like would you kind of wonder why are you telling me this?
00:10:27 Courtney Brame: Would you be thankful for them telling you this? Or would it be something that you consider to be irrelevant? Because I don't have the answer. I just know what I personally would uh what I would appreciate and I would definitely appreciate like being given that choice because what is it it always comes down to choice right like what are we choosing what are the options that are available to us and when we have all of the information that's when we're able to make the best choice that we can make um I have spoken to people who are herpes positive and in nonmonogamous relationships and in these relationships like they've been super afraid of disclosing or telling their partners and more often than not what I hear is that the partners are very supportive people may not you know feel uh in a place to reach out to new partners or to welcome in new uh potential partners but the place that they are in with the partners that they have existing like they're all very supportive and these relationships have not ended.
00:11:41 Courtney Brame: Um they're I'm not going to say that that's the same case for everybody, but more often than not, you know, if you're selecting good partners, if you're making sure that these are people you're compatible with, then you'll see for yourself that that is so much more important to people than the the possibility of getting herpes. Because at a certain age and a certain level of maturity, you recognize that if you're somebody who gets laid, then you might have already potentially been exposed to this and it's been okay and you just might not have tested positive. But if you're somebody who, you know, and I don't want to like downplay or down talk anyone who might, you know, just have a genuine resistance to uh possibly getting herpes, but I I would wonder, you know, if you really like somebody and then this became an issue, like how would people respond to it? Because I also see like a lot of people who uh a person that they don't really even like going into dating sex relationships. I've spoken to a lot of people who regret having gotten their diagnosis because of who they got it from.
The Importance of the Vetting Process
00:12:55 Courtney Brame: Like they don't even like the person. They have regrets about whoever it was that they slept with. Um you know under the circumstances of these being consensual relationships of course. Um but having regret like that and then you know from there moving forward I see people who have regret about who they disclose to like oh I shouldn't have even told them I should have known better like this person was not for me we wanted different things and this is all they want they're selfish or we we we tend to um inflate the things about them that we don't really like after the rejection happens. Right? But these are things that were already there, right? Like we know if we're compatible with somebody, go back and listen to podcast episode 299, um, integrative disclosure where we go over the STARS Talk and how to disclose. And if you need something more than that, we have the herpes disclosure workshop video on demand on the website. All you have to do is purchase it on the offerings page and you'll be able to watch that.
00:14:01 Courtney Brame: I'll give you one week uh to watch the video and you'll have access to that. And uh yeah, it's like a class, y'all. Just just take notes. Just watch that. Take notes and put that thing in practice. Put the STARS part, uh STARS framework into practice because you should know what makes you feel safe. You should know what turns you on. You should know your “avoids”. You should know what your relationship intentions are. And you should also know what your STI status is. and be in a place where you're comfortable enough to present that and ask for the other person too. Ask them about their STARS Talk, what turns them on, what their avoids are, uh what their relationship intentions are. All of this, these are conversations that need to be had. And I think that the greater the compatibility and that's where this vetting process is so important, right? Like us, we should be vetting people that we want to be in a relationship with.
00:14:59 Courtney Brame: Not to say that you can't hit it off with somebody really early, but some of the vetting can come from just the quality of the questions that we ask. It comes from the consistency of that person, right? Like, are they someone who does what they say they're going to do? Are they someone that you want to be with? And like I I this is a little bit of a different topic of conversation, but it's relatable to account or to um compatibility. I'm seeing that a lot of the women who date men that I talk to, like I'm I'm I'm seeing that there's a lot of leniency and like the bare minimum is what's being accepted. And just cuz you have herpes, I really believe that we y'all as women, I'm not a woman. I can't, you know, speak for this myself, but I do speak to a significantly higher number of women than men. And a lot of this is like there's this apologeticness to your disclosures and like downplaying it and almost apologizing for having herpes, apologizing for having a desire.
00:16:16 Courtney Brame: There's so much of this apologizing and highlighting insecurities. Whereas what I encourage y'all to do, like I really would love to see from y'all is just to have more of this uh natural confidence in the kind of man that you're choosing or putting yourself in front of, right? Like be real with yourself about what it is that you want in your man, right? Like, and I'm saying man because there are things about men that I think that people who date men don't recognize as staples of what it means to be a man. One of those things is discipline. One of those things is consistency. Another one of those things is integrity. And I see a lot of y'all be out here messing with m************ who ain't got none of them. Like y'all will see this person, well he's there and you won't say that, but when I ask enough questions, like that's what it comes down to. You know what you want, but you'll settle for what's there.
00:17:19 Courtney Brame: Again, whole different conversation, but that's something that we can talk about in one of our support meetings or something. But, uh, I just feel a need to mention that because these need to be parts of accountability. And, you know, we'll say things like, "Oh, well, we don't vibe or we're not a fit." And the reality is like a lot of those people that we don't vibe with or that we don't see ourselves as a fit with, these are just people who we don't agree with. And most relationships have some type of, you know, we don't always agree. But those important things that are important traits to you to have in a man, right, they have to be linked to that discipline, consistency, integrity, and like the conversation about women wanting a man who can lead, right? That's a very popular conversation to be had. But if leadership is in fact something that you know that you need, don't let none of these sex positivity accounts or these women who are out here, you know, saying what kind of woman you need to be tell what kind of woman you need to be in order to get a man.
00:18:27 Courtney Brame: And then the kind of man that you want isn't the kind of man that you would get from being the kind of woman that they're telling you to be. Don't listen to that s***, y'all. Know what you want. know the kind of partner you want, whether that be a man. Well, I'm speaking specifically to uh people who date men or women who date men, because that's what you're generally going to come across is like rather than looking exclusively at that person's attractiveness or you know what um what they got going on is important because you want to see that discipline with the thing. You want to see the consistency. You want to see their integrity, their commitment, right? And I'll be I'mma let y'all in on a little secret, ladies. Men may not know what we, you know, if a woman is the one right now, but we damn sure can tell you if you're not the one. Like, we know that.
"Veto Power" and Being Discerning
00:19:22 Courtney Brame: We can see, we can look at you, and we can go, "Nope, you ain't it." But we don't always know when you are it. If that makes sense. So, uh, that was a little side tangent, but it was relevant to compatibility because if you are someone too who is monogamous, you don't need to be dating non monogamous people cuz then they have to go and tell their other partner about your status. And this is just like an added layer of a need for approval in a sense because if you're being vetted by uh someone that you're interested in being in a relationship, right, with, right, or being sexual with, they have to go home, tell their partner, hey, there's this person I met that has herpes. Like, how do you feel about that? And then, you know, you kind of get what they call it, veto power. Then you get vetoed because the partner doesn't want you to get herpes and give them herpes and mess up their ability to go off and have sex without having to have such a conversation.
00:20:21 Courtney Brame: Right? So again, like knowing what we want and compatibility, it makes the rejections if we experience them worth it. A lot of people fear rejection so much and don't even know what they want or won't even reject themselves before they even give the them uh another person the opportunity to say yes or no to giving them what it is that they're asking for what they're hoping to receive. And it's sad and I see so much of it y'all. And I'm really working to get these Something Positive for Positive People resources out into the hands of health professionals who, they themselves, are going to be able to have access to Something Positive for Positive People resources to share with people immediately. So, I genuinely do believe that as this resource expands, as we continue to do these surveys, as we continue to podcast, as we reach out to medical professionals, as we offer these stigma free trainings, these simulation experiences, and now, like being that I moved, I'm I'm in New Jersey now.
00:21:33 Courtney Brame: Um, I'm out on the East Coast. Uh, my plan is to do a lot here in New York and really expand. I found my niche, if you will. Um, I'm a public health person. I've been putting so much time and energy into, you know, falling into the sex positivity and the kinking uh non-monogamy and BDSM spaces that, you know, I'm realizing that yes, this has a place there, but it's not sexy. It's not sexy to talk about STI. It's not sexy to talk about herpes. It's not sexy to talk about disclosure. And I'm very fortunate that people like uh like Mara Stewart, um like Steph Zapata, um they give me a platform in their spaces where there is more there are more like sexy conversations, but they loot me in because of how necessary this is. So, I'm super grateful for those um and all of the other, you know, kink and fun and play spaces that invite me in to share my message, the podcast that I've been on.
00:22:40 Courtney Brame: Um, but what I'm seeing is that there's so much more of a need for me so I don't want to force myself, but like I've organically fallen through this conference. I've organically fallen into the public health sector and talked to nurses, doctors, public health professionals, mental health professionals, therapists, sex educators. These are the people who are able to put this resource in the hands of people who are newly diagnosed, who have questions about herpes, who want to talk about STI and sexual health. And this is where we at. Like, that's what I'm doing now, y'all. All right. But bringing this whole thing back full circle when it comes to um someone dating someone who has herpes, I really personally think that you should give new people uh the choice, especially because of what we here know about herpes and that it's a tricky virus. You can pass it on without having any symptoms. You can pass it on even if you wear condoms. You can pass it on even if you take medication.
00:23:44 Courtney Brame: There is nothing that you can do to prevent transmission. The best form of defense that you'll have is taking care of your body. You want to take care of your overall health. And you'll want to also um just be communicative, right? Have those hard conversations. A lot of us don't want to have that hard conversation. hard conversation being that hey, you know, I have herpes and this is very vulnerable for me and I can't tell you that I would never give it to you. I was having a conversation with my girl about this earlier today, right? We never really. Well, we had the conversation, but she never asked me how I would feel if she got herpes from me. And in my response, um, I started talking about how I just hadn't really had to think about it because of her reaction to it. She's like, you know, if you got it, we got it. It don't get no better than that, right?
00:24:42 Courtney Brame: Like when a m*********** likes you, when they f*** with you, they f*** with you, right? It ain't no questions about it, right? And people get so caught up in whether or not they're going to find somebody and they're not understanding that your person, your people are going to prioritize you above whatever you have going on, right? If they like you, they like you. It really ain't nothing that you can do to change that. There's nothing that they can do to change that either. So that's that. That's all there is to it, y'all. And so, um, all that said, man, like I I really hope that y'all have something to take away from this podcast episode. Um, that's it for, you know, the topic that I wanted to discuss, which was just disclosing on behalf of a partner. Should you do it? Yeah. If you don't do it, is it a big deal? It is.
Looking Ahead to Future Events
00:25:40 Courtney Brame: if the person that you are having sex with gets herpes from you and then that becomes a whole another thing, right? But ladies, again, if you date men, these things are important. Like look at the traits, look at the consistency cuz a lot of these red flags, like when you when you look at consistency and you see that a person's inconsistent and they don't do what they say they will and there's no like follow through or commitment, they weed themselves out really quickly. But that can be a whole another podcast episode. So don't forget y'all the conference. I'm working on my slides today. I got the conference laid out. It's organized. I want to shout out Wisp because they're giving us more hats. Everyone, uh we got about 40 hats now. So uh I asked people to share a social media post for the conference on their social media, whether that be on a story or a post.
00:26:36 Courtney Brame: And I got so many people to do it, y'all. About 40 something people shared the conference on their pages. We were able to sell some more tickets. I reached out to Wisp and asked about getting more hats to do a giveaway because so many people, you know, um went on and shared that which was phenomenal because now like almost everybody can get a hat and I don't have to like tell people “you didn't get a hat”. One thing about this herpes thing, y'all, is um you get so sensitive to being rejected that you kind of get better at rejecting people or you get better about it. So, for me, I don't want to reject people. I just want to get more hats. So, I asked who for more hats and I explained to them what we were doing and they were on board. So, shout out to them for sponsoring the conference, for giving us more hats. Um, you can enter the giveaway, too.
00:27:26 Courtney Brame: But I by the time you listen to this, like the giveaway will be over because I got to send these hats out or start sending them out uh literally tomorrow. I'm posting this episode today, Monday, May what? 13th. Um, and I'm done with it on the 14th cuz uh the conference is on the 23rd. The conference is on the 23rd, y'all. This is my first conference that I've ever organized. It's virtual. It's from 11:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Eastern time because I'm in the Eastern time zone now. For those who don't know, I moved from Portland, Oregon to New Jersey. Um, I'm in northern Northern New Jersey uh easy. I'm able to get to New York easily, uh, so that I can continue to run Something Positive for Positive People, do this full-time, continue to build and expand community. Um, I have not heard back from my genital exams job.
00:28:20 Courtney Brame: So, this actually might be the only thing that I'm doing now, which yeah, um, I'm more at peace than I am nervous because I get to finally say that this is the only thing I'm doing, which I'm also um, in yoga therapy school, which, you know, that doesn't make money. So, this is the thing that I'm doing. Uh, but at some point I'll be able to offer yoga therapy. I have intake forms on the site because uh as I'm learning, I'm also going to be looking for people for case studies who want to take part in that. So, if you're somebody who you hear this and you're curious about how yoga therapy can help you, which it's really just the science of yoga, uh using it to restore balance in the body, like often times illnesses and disorders are triggered by imbalances of some sort in the body, in the gut, in the person's personality, and their decision making energetically, emotionally, mentally, physically. Um, and yoga is a really good tool for um, utilizing a therapy approach to restore that balance.
00:29:29 Courtney Brame: So, I'm going to be doing that through Something Positive for Positive People. If you are a member, you get to come to the conference for free. So, if you are not a member of sSomething Positive for Positive People yet, then you can go to spf.org/membership org/membership and you can register for the membership that best works for your budget and you'll be able to attend all of our um all of our events depending on which tier you signed up for. But virtually um you get tickets to all those events and then in person uh we'll give you some type of discount. I am looking to start up a men's herpes group and a herpes group and I want to do different times. I want to do an evening one. Um, and I want to do something that's like on a weekend or in the morning to where we can have a call and people who are members. This is going to be for members only. I'm not opening it up to the public.
00:30:22 Courtney Brame: You can pay, you can pay $25 a month to have access to the community, especially for everything else you'll get. You'll get access to the letting go yoga series classes. There's 20 yoga classes there. Um, and then you'll have uh access to the live p um live podcast. You'll be able to join if you have questions for the guest. Uh you'll be able to ask the guest or you want you can just sit in and listen and just be in a little community space where um I'll interview the guest and then at the end if y'all have questions you can ask or if it's just me we can just make it something that's more interactive and um yeah. September 29th, we have our safe sex expo in NYC. Uh Jolene and I are putting that together. So, this is a Something Positive for Positive People event that is co-hosted by the No Shame in this game film. So, all of your uh ticket purchases are tax-deductible because of Something Positive for Positive People's nonprofit and we're putting the event on.
00:31:25 Courtney Brame: So, if you go to the offerings tab, you'll be able to access that. Um and yeah, be on the lookout for events, y'all. The best way to stay in touch with what's happening through something positive is to visit our um what is that thing called? Oh, join our email list. Yeah, join the email list. Um yeah, so I believe that's all we got. Also, if you do win a hat, um I do ask that in honor of mental health awareness month that you just post something uh post what it means to live free of stigma or what does stigma-free mean to you. Um, I'll start this out with my own post. Uh, and I'll just post a selfie with the Wisp on where the lines going through the word stigma and I'll just ask people to share that because I think that that is a really cool thing. And then share that and tag myself and Wisp in there uh for mental health month, mental mental health awareness month.
00:32:24 Courtney Brame: And um yeah, we'll do this thing soon because that's what the conference is about y'all. Sexual health is mental health. And so when we get into what that means for us, what that means for the people that we love and care about, have sex with, um, we we we doing it for them. We doing it for them and ourselves. All right. Now, um, I'm always taking donations, especially now cuz this is all I'm doing. Um, the yoga classes I once Yeah. I'll be in my routine after the conference is done, y'all. So, if you haven't already, please share it with your doctors, your nurses, and your public health professionals. This is going to be a really good thing. It's going to be something that we're going to make an annual or do it. Yeah, we can do it annually for sure. Twice a year. There is so much information, y'all. We got enough information to cover six conferences at the least. Um, if we were to go deeper into what this survey data tells us about individuals living with herpes. All right, that concludes this episode, y'all. Thank you for rocking with me. I appreciate you. And um yeah, I hope that you put this in practice. Reach out to me. Let me know what you thought of this podcast. If you need a support call, just make the donation and schedule it and then we'll be able to go from there. Till next time.
Transcription ended after 00:34:44
