SPFPP 364: Minimizing Stigma in Medical Settings

On this episode of Something Positive for Positive People, I’m reflecting on a huge milestone—hosting my first-ever clinician training simulation focused on herpes stigma. This training was a year in the making, and with the support of amazing collaborators, we created realistic patient scenarios to help medical professionals, sex educators, and students improve their communication around herpes.

I share insights from the training, the powerful feedback we received, and how this work is setting the stage for my future—expanding SPFPP’s mission to minimize herpes stigma through education, community, and professional training. Plus, I open up about personal growth, setting boundaries, and what it means to show up for myself and this community.

If you’re a health professional or work with an organization that could benefit from this stigma-free training, reach out! And if you're navigating herpes stigma, know that you are not alone—this space is for you.

Head over to the SPFPP Training tab in order to learn more about the training.

Episode 364 Transcript

The Evolution of SPFPP and the Medical Simulation

00:00:00

Courtney Brame: Hello and welcome to Something Positive for Positive People. I'm Courtney Brame. Something Positive for Positive People is a 501c3 nonprofit organization supporting people navigating herpes stigma. But it didn't always start out that way. At first, it was a podcast in 2017 where I was interviewing people who were struggling with their herpes diagnosis. And the reason that I started this was because I saw that there were many people who were sharing that they had suicide ideation because of their herpes diagnosis. And this was really just a way of giving people the stories of others so that they were able to see how other people are living with the herpes virus. And in that it grew into a nonprofit. And the nonprofit was intended to raise money to pay for people to get therapy, get data that matters to the people who are living with herpes, as well as bring a sense of community together outside the context of, "Oh my god, I have herpes. This is the worst thing that ever happened to me." And then it becoming like um this this this

00:01:52

Courtney Brame: trauma loop of people just sharing their like the trauma of their diagnosis uh versus any type of healing taking place. So let me see. I got to put my phone on “Do not disturb” because something will happen while I'm talking here and I'll get interrupted and lose my train of thought. But um yeah, it's evolved, right? And one of the evolution uh I'm really excited about it happened Monday. So today's Wednesday, February 26th, and on Monday, uh this was a year and a few months in the making, a few weeks in the making. Um a firm AZ, they sponsored the podcast, uh the conference last year. Uh this is a sexual health related organization. A sexual health related organization. I am not doing the service. It's a reproductive wellness and sexual wellness organization and a lot of their services are under the umbrella of I don't know if I'm very much censoring myself because of today's political climate.

00:03:08

Courtney Brame: Uh being mindful of what I'm saying cuz I want to post clips of this too. So, if I seem like I don't know who I'm working with, that's not the case, y'all. It's not the case, right? So, I hope that this doesn't come out that way at all. But um, to try and keep it as algorithmically aligned as I can, what we did was we created a scene, some scenes, where clinicians, sex educators and med students were able to um work with a patient and receive feedback from them. All of these were in relation to herpes. So the first case was someone who was 40 years old, married, presenting physical symptoms of herpes and their biggest concern was “is my husband cheating on me?” So the clinician not only had to deal with delivering the diagnosis but also talking to the patient through that at the end of their time together they were able to get feedback from the patient and that patient feedback is critical because we did this also in a room full of other clinicians other uh staff members as well and we were able to bounce feedback off of all of these people and engage in very useful discussion.

Real-World Scenarios for Stigma-Free Care

00:04:25

Courtney Brame: The next case was a genderqueer person who is looking to date again. They have herpes. They've had it for a while and they want to know how to communicate with partners and keep them safe from getting herpes. So the sex educator who was doing the consultation with this patient was responsible for addressing the patients concerns while also maintaining the integrity of their identity and navigating the discussions about the kinds of sex that they have or are looking to have and talk about herpes. And what was so beautiful about this one was there were things that the educator just didn't know and they were able to own that and name that they just didn't know. They were like, I would have to do some more research in that and we can do that together. Which was so beautiful to see. Um the other case we presented was neonatal herpes and this one was kind of freestyled because we had a um I think she's in what is it in clinical something like that and she was very curious about what an interaction could look like from that perspective.

00:05:29

Courtney Brame: So we … we improvised. We improvised and we role-played that. And then we had one bonus at the end that I didn't get to observe, so I can't speak to, but uh we had a man who sat down with Dr. Evelin Dacker. Shout out to her for being my family physician on this and being somebody or being the medical person uh to be able to speak to what the clinicians and uh staff in public health might be dealing with outside of my realm of perspective. Um so it was very very wonderful having her there. And in fact, I want to shout out Jordan everyone. Shout out to Cota, thank you Michelle. Thank you Paula for putting this together. Thank you everybody who had some involvement with this. Like I… it goes way further. Shout out to TR uh who is retired and she really prepared me for being able to put this training together. Um and this is what we're going to do.

00:06:20

Courtney Brame: This is what we are doing from here on out. Uh, all in all, with travel expenses and everything, I think that this came out to being about 12 to $15,000. I would need to look at the expenses from the trip, but all of $15,000 for us to put the simulation on. And it was a very small turnout. I think we had a total of 20 people there. That's everybody. Um, but I envisioned being able to do this same thing on a larger scale. And for the first time, there's, you know, bumps in the road. Like, there are things that I could have done better. I definitely could have set the expectations and uh gotten the clinicians to understand like, “hey, you're going to be on camera”. Um, because a lot of people didn't want to be on camera. So, we have the back of the clinician's heads, which works fine. Like, we were able to improvise there.

00:07:07

Courtney Brame: I was able to get a videographer to come so that we can get footage and now I can show you all what it is that we're doing rather than me explaining it or trying to talk through it. Um because for the last seven, eight, yeah, it's been eight almost nine years. Yeah, eight years. For the last eight years that I've been doing this, it's been a lot of talking and there hasn't really been a lot of showing and partially because of stigma, right? People don't want to be seen. People don't want to be associated with or connected to an organization that's providing services for people who have herpes, right? Because then people are going to think you have it or whatever. Um, but we were able to get some volunteers that offered to contribute to this. um the money that we were able to raise. I want to shout out the Love and Action Fund for being willing and able to provide us with the money that we needed.

Funding the Future and Yoga Therapy

00:07:59

Courtney Brame: That was the bulk of it. Um the rest of it just came from y'all's donations. I want to thank my yoga therapy clients because y'all's contributions have helped make this possible. And this is the launch pad for the rest of what my career is going to look like. I am going to work with people on a one-on-one basis through yoga therapy. And I feel so certain and clear now that I can say that. Like uh and I also want to name, I've not been present or consistent at all with recording podcast episodes since the episode that I did with Holly. I've been dealing with a lot of things personally, but also having to prepare for this thing that is in fact going to be what the rest of my career looks like. So, as I pursue grant opportunities and funding, um, this looks like being able to create jobs across the country for patient actors. So, I don't know, you know, what the price point is going to be, but people who are sex educators or if you are looking to volunteer, if you are somebody who is in the medical field, if you work at an organization that can use some training, uh, especially in regards to delivering a herpes diagnosis or counseling patients with herpes, please don't hesitate to reach out to me.

00:09:10

Courtney Brame: like that is a very specific niche. Um, we can wiggle in other things, but in order to be aligned with the mission and the funding that I'm hoping to be able to get over the years, uh, it needs to be in alignment with herpes. There's plenty of medical health organizations. Why did I say that? There's plenty of health related organizations, public health, mental health, places and people where this is going to be valuable to them. So, as long as I can find the funding opportunities, I'll be able to continue to run this program, train everybody, organize the events, and put these on. Like, this was really useful, and we got some really good feedback. Like some people asked for more lecture and that's coming from from me who I talk a lot right so they wanted more of me talking which was great um and speaking about what it means to be stigmafree but uh all this information will be updated on the training tab on Something Positive for Positive People's website.

00:10:10

Courtney Brame: So as I get video footage as I get the marketing materials we're creating a commercial for it so that it's more easy to find. If you're somebody who works at a clinic, if you're in public health and you know you want to support Something Positive, but maybe you don't want to out yourself, I think that being able to say that you stumbled across this program that can be helpful for the staff to be stigma-free with their language or to navigate communicating with patients about their sexual health is especially with herpes, right? Like I got to keep throwing that in there because this is so unique. There's a lot of HIV organizations. There's a lot of STI work for chlamydia, gonorrhea, syphilis, but there's so few in regards to herpes. There's herpes cure advocacy and myself as far as organizations that I know of. I don't know of any other ones, at least in the United States, that are doing what it is that we're doing. So, it's very useful.

00:11:04

Courtney Brame: It's very powerful. It's impactful. The feedback has been tremendous in the sense that I know what to do more of and what to do less of and a lot of it really just has to do with expectation setting in the marketing material. I thought I did a good job of that, but you know it can always be better. And then in regards to feedback, like I don't want to recap it, you know. I'm going to- hopefully when I post this episode, um I'll just link to the training page and then whenever the commercial's there, the commercial will be there. But yeah, I would really like it if you work at a health related organization, please have somebody get in contact with me so that we can talk about what it looks like to host and facilitate a training. If it needs to be virtual, it can be virtual. Um but I prefer in person because there's just so much more value there.

Upcoming Events and Setting Personal Boundaries

00:12:00

Courtney Brame: There's more presence. There's more feedback. Um, and that's what I want to be doing. I want to be doing this and I want to be seeing my yoga therapy clients and of course the podcast. Like I'll host that. Um, speaking of also Trisha aka Safe s***, she and I have next Thursday on March 6th, we're going to be hosting a social event. It's free. It's in Brooklyn. Um, it'll be at the house. Uh, and the um the intention is just for us to hang out, for us to just socialize. I think my battery to my headphones is low. I think my headphones just died. That's crazy. Uh, if I sound different, it's because my headphones just died. So, all right. Hopefully y'all can still hear me, but my headphones just died on me. Wow. I might even sound better to be completely honest, but I'll check before posting this.

00:12:57

Courtney Brame: And um yeah, it's going to be a social event. And then two days later, I have the Something Positive for Positive People stigma minimization expo. Uh that's going to be in Norc, New Jersey. It's at the NJCRI. Uh the details and address is all on the events tab of Something Positive for Positive People. So you can go there if you want to register. There are free spots available. But if you can pay, y'all, please pay. Please pay. We got Dakota. She's going to come do her deep throat workshop. So, there's something pleasure-based and fun. And then I myself am going to facilitate a herpes disclosure workshop to teach people how to talk about herpes as well as sexual health with their partners. I'll be using the STARS framework from Dr. Evelin Dacker. And uh yeah, we'll have food, we'll have some socializing, and that's going to be a really good time.

00:13:45

Courtney Brame: And then in a month, it'll be April 8th, I believe. April 6th or 8th, I forget what the day is like in relation to the different days of the month. Um, but that'll be a Saturday at Hit Me Up Space in New York City. This is going to be an event where Trisha and I are going to both facilitate a workshop. So, these are going to be two separate workshops uh for the price of one admission at Hit Me Up Space for us to talk about rejection handling as well as herpes disclosure. So, we'll have those two workshops and be able to mix and mingle and socialize there as well. So, lots of opportunities. I'm trying to make sure to get out here while I can and build community like in person because there's something about the power of presence uh where we can commune together and through this thing that we have in common be able to formulate some type of community sense of safety uh and be able to like just see that there's people who have herpes who are living a healthy normal life who are living the kind of life that they want having the kind of sex that they want.

00:14:52

Courtney Brame: And I want that for y'all. I want that for everybody. But I'm I'm riding a high right now. Really am. From having been in Phoenix for the last eight days, I've done a lot of traveling over between December 12th and literally Monday. Um I've gone to see friends. I've gone to a friend's wedding. Uh Dakota and I had a conference that we presented at. Uh we had another conference that we presented at. I had my yoga therapy training in person and then uh the training simulation in Phoenix, Arizona. So, I'm going to sit my ass down for a little bit. I'm very much looking at and working on boundaries for myself. Um a lot of the personal stuff that I've been dealing with has come from a lack of or absence of or negligence of boundaries all in general. So, um I'm working on that. and working on my boundaries around time, finances, energy slash emotions, right?

00:15:50

Courtney Brame: Like how I want to feel um as well as my uh wow what were the other ones? Communication and then sex. Like these are important places to have boundaries. I've always had this belief that like oh you know why should I have boundaries you know for people like I don't believe in that. I don't want to give people boundaries and it never sat right for me. So, I've always used that as an excuse for not having boundaries, but really the boundaries are for myself around things. I think boundaries are for things, not for people. So, if I have boundaries in regards to my time, the kind of people uh who would violate my time won't be able to make their way into my space because that's an instant boundary. like I can communicate like hey I don't like when people are late to things to calls to uh things that we have planned and so I'm not going to violate myself by you know welcoming that and and trying to work myself around the person who consistently violates my time and the same thing with finances food is another one I need boundaries around food y'all I ate like I didn't feel good like I and it was just how I ate what I ate.

00:17:06

Courtney Brame: Like when I burped, it tasted like throw up. And I was very just gassy. I don't know if it was a specific thing I ate, but I hadn't really been able to cook my own food really. Like I got these salads from Walmart and like a rotisserie chicken and I eat that for lunch every day and then dinner was whatever. But I've been eating significantly less and just being more mindful of that. But my stomach has been messed up in a sense of just fullness and that wasn't healthy. You know, we do all this talking about herpes, right? But I'm looking at myself beyond that and having a more expansive view of myself. Um, if you listen to the yoga therapy podcast episode, you know, I talked about the koshas, the five aspects or layers of self and those selves being the physical body, the energetic or breath body, the mental emotional body, our identity or collective of experiences, um, and then the pleasure body.

Healing Relationships and the Koshas

00:18:09

Courtney Brame: So I've been looking at creating boundaries and aligning myself with integrity in accordance to those things as well as Napoleon Hills Outwitting the Devil. Uh there are seven principles in there. Uh they define… definiteness of purpose, mastering your environment, self-discipline, harmony… Oh man, what were the other ones? Ah, that's four of them. Exercising caution. There's five. And then there's two more that I'm blanking on. But these are the guiding principles to my values. And I'm going to work on those and be a little bit more transparent in what I'm going through because I've been hidden. I've been suppressing myself. And I recognize that. And today I'm feeling really light emotionally, energetically. Um perhaps it was just the weight of everything that I had going on for the last eight days, arguably the last two months. Um just from moving and uh sharing space now with my girlfriend and uh can I say that?

00:19:19

Courtney Brame: I don't know if I can say that or not. Is it like this place of trying to like uh get to know each other. So, I've been trying to not talk about this, but I think maybe I need to talk about it, and that's all the more reason to. But, um, yeah, we broke up prior to February 5th or 6th, um, ending the relationship and then coming back into like what's going to happen next. And so being real, um I see this the relationship is not a relationship but it is a relationship like we all have relationships right but what I'm having what the experience is right now and I don't got to go into too many details is that um the relationship has ended as it was and now there's this space of okay who am I? who are you? And can a relationship continue if I am who I am and you are who you are now with new expectations? So, um this ain't one of them is complicated situations, right?

00:20:30

Courtney Brame: Like I'm treating it like I'm in a relationship. Um and going really from there and I'm working on what my boundaries are like so that I can do a better job of setting expectations. So there's so much that we've covered over the years in relation to herpes and dating, but not necessarily the self and relationships and relationships to ourselves. And so I hope that this is a shift that y'all are willing to be on board with. I know the last episode I did, I talked about um speaking more about relationships and having herpes, but it's really just about relationships, right? Like so much of the content that's out there, I've been working so hard to weave in herpes, but it's just more than that, right? Like it's about, you know, positivity, like being positive, not just in regards to your sexual health status, but also in regards to your overall quality of life. And this is just one avenue of healing that we can all go down. And when we do so in community, it makes it a lot easier to navigate.

00:21:44

Courtney Brame: So, this space is hopefully a good community for y'all. Um, I've needed this. I've needed to be on my podcast. Like, I've let myself slip away during hard times from what I've needed most. And what I think I've needed most is this self-expression. I think I've needed this community engagement. I needed to engage with my purpose because I think that part of, you know, what's led to some of the conflict in my relationship has been that what I would normally pour into this platform, this space, I've been making an effort to pour into my relationship. And yeah, like it's been hard. It's been a struggle. And I take full accountability for the challenges that have presented themselves. And uh that's what I'm doing now. like I'm working on things and trying to get clearer and better on boundaries because I haven't been I haven't had to. It's just been me. I've been by myself.

00:22:45

Courtney Brame: And I think that when you're single for a while, especially for me having been someone who hasn't had any accountability from a partner, like I was definitely reckless. I was reckless in the beginnings of that. But I have so much more to dial back. And it feels really good to be able to just breathe into this new found lightness of integrity and being able to like try and uh not try because I know who I am. And now it's a matter of using boundaries to uphold my identity. That's what it is. Boundaries are a way of upholding my identity. I speak to y'all about identity validation and the importance of being able to be yourself and see yourself outside of your sexuality and sexual health status exclusively, but seeing yourself in the way that you want to be seen by your friends and your family and those relationships that are important to you. Um, and being able to be accepted. And that's something that I've been trying to figure out as well.

00:23:54

Courtney Brame: Like what does acceptance look like? Like is it enabling? Is it, you know, just unconditional? I'll let you I'll allow you and let you do whatever you want regardless of consequences or is it something else? Right? And I view acceptance as sort of a neutrality and as supportive and challenging. That's what acceptance is. It's a balance of support and challenging. And I think that that's what transcends enabling versus not enabling, right? So for a person to be able to be themselves within someone else's presence, right? And to have a level of acceptance that it is safe to be that. And there's also the challenge that creates accountability. And there's the support which uh I think is a… it, it is different than enabling. Right. So yeah, that's where I'm at. That's where I'm at in life. I think it was important that I name that.

Self-Expression, Purpose, and Staying Consistent

00:24:56

Courtney Brame: Um, I've had a lot of very supportive conversations and people around me have been really good to me and like showing me as well that like I'm more than what I'm identifying with, right? Like a lot of my identification has still been if it hasn't been herpes, it's been sex and my sexuality. And I was challenged by a good friend of mine who a few good friends of mine actually this has been a reoccurring thing but look at my relationship with sexuality not necessarily just sex and you know decide what sexuality is and you know I look at mine as you know I look at sex and sexuality as at its core creation and if we look at whatever it is that you believe about God whether you do or don't believe in God or higher power whatever I think that we've got this creation that only can occur when the two sides, the masculine, feminine, yin, yang, whatever come together. You bring the masculine, feminine together and the greatest thing that you can create is another being.

00:26:09

Courtney Brame: Right? So if you separate the masculine and the feminine, what is the greatest bit of creation? Right? So when we look inside and internally we go and we can create things that have the purpose of being experienced anew by others. Right? I look at my relationship with God as I ask myself and I'll ask people this sometimes like why do you think God made this if there was a God? Right? Let's play around with that. Can you imagine knowing everything and nothing being new or exciting? Like how boring would it be to just exist? So I think that all of this was created out of boredom, right? Like if you know everything, the most fun game you can play is not knowing everything and being on this journey to remember that that's where you are. So, however many life cycles and uh expressions of existence that exist, like all of this is I'm watching these birds just kind of fly around with each other and I look at them and I'm like, that's me or I was that or I am that.

00:27:16

Courtney Brame: But time doesn't necessarily exist to God. It exists within the limitations of what our uh being is, right? So, we've got these bodies that have like a clock on them, a natural progression that changes according to life circumstances, right? And at any given moment, that can just go away. And I think that it's important that I live that way. And I've not been living that way. I've been living uh yoga philosophy has this uh the classes or the root causes of suffering. Fear of death, avoidance, ignorance, ego, and aversion. Oh, look at me. Fear of death of ignorance. Oh, attachment. I said one thing twice, but attachment is the other one. And I've been suffering in all of those. And I've been listening to the book Letting Go. And I've been letting go of the things that I found myself most attached to, where my ego has been rampant, where I've been ignorant, where I've just been fearful.

00:28:32

Courtney Brame: And I think in doing so, that's why I'm able to come and record this podcast episode because I've tried… I've tried to record some podcast episodes and they've just not been good. They've turned into other things and they've not been genuine. And I recognize that when I am genuine, when I show up in this way where, you know, it ain't no filters in how I speak. Like, how you do one thing is how you do everything. And I've felt like I've not been able to do that lately. And I've now become supported and pushed and challenged by the people around me to do this and how necessary it is, especially now when politically, you know, there's a lot of things that are threatening to a lot of people's well-being. And you know herpes is becoming less of an important thing especially but it is still an important thing because it affects one of the avenues of healing for us which might be sex and sexuality and our ability to have relationships and connect with people.

00:29:37

Courtney Brame: So I'm looking at this from a new lens and that new lens being that this is a lot bigger than what I got going on. So no matter what I need to show up and I just show up how I show up. It's more important to me that I be real than I be right. So, uh, I want to just name this now and take accountability and say to y'all like consistency is key. I got my eyes closed while I'm saying this, but it's almost like I'm praying, speaking this as a spell for myself to remain consistent in what I'm doing, what I say I'mma do. So, if I don't do anything else, it's gonna show up real and be consistent. And if there are things that I can't say n hey I can't talk about this because it's it's also strange you know having relationships with people or a relationship relationships and wanting to also be mindful of them and like keeping their business out of things and and doing that.

00:30:37

Courtney Brame: I think that what's happened is I've created a whole ass new persona that fortunately y'all haven't really gotten to see. Um, but it it's showing up in my personal relationships and I I got to I got to shake that s*** off and I got to get to being me. There's no going back to who I was. There's only you know integration and the implementation of you know who I am. I think that that's it. There's the implementation of the integration that's been occurring over this bit of time that I've been struggling. So, uh all that said y'all, uh we got the herpes stigma conference May 22nd. We have some changes to the schedule that I'll try and get announced. And I got to promote that. I got to promote the next uh Something Positive expo which is going to be in Newark, New Jersey on Newark, Ne WK, New Jersey on March 8th, which is a Saturday, March 6. We got the social in Brooklyn.

00:31:41

Courtney Brame: Um I have some virtual things that are coming up as well. So just check out the events tab and they'll be there. And I'm trying to think if there's anything else. I'll be in Canada, Montreal, uh at the end of July for a conference with Dr. Ina Park as well as Jolene who made the No Shame in this Game film. Oh, and June, early June is SEI Engage in Phoenix, Arizona. So, I'll be back out there as well for that. Um, and I'm teaching yoga to um sexual health related organizations. I was very excited to have an opportunity to revisit that. For those who don't know, I'm a 500 hour registered certified yoga instructor and I'm in yoga therapy training. I just completed my introductory course which was 300 hours. Now I only got 500 to go and I will be international and I am an international association for yoga therapist certified and I'mma have that stamp on everything.

00:32:39

Courtney Brame: So, um, yeah, this ain't coaching. This ain't, you know, the licensed mental health professional therapy, but it's yoga therapy, which is just an integration of yoga into a therapeutic approach one-on-one to support you in your healing of the physical body, the mind, your breathing, meditating, um, self-reflection, and being able to use those as reference points to help you through navigating dating stigma or herpes stigma, whether that be dating, relationship, sex, and your physical symptoms, emotional wellness, whatever. Uh, we also got the survey. We're taking responses. If you can, please take that, participate, because that data is going to fuel my ability to get funding to be able to continue to do free s*** for y'all. I love being able to do free s***, but I got to be able to get paid for it. All right. Um, if you need a support call, one-on-one donation based support calls, I had somebody donate one cent. Don't matter. Everybody get the same 30 minutes.

00:33:31

Courtney Brame: If whatever you got to give, please do. Um, we gonna make it work. I feel like that person might have just been being an a****** and trolling because I haven't heard back. But I just told him I was like, "Hey, you know, once I get your one cent donation, I'll send the calendar." And I'm like, "I think it costs more money to send me one cent than it is." You know what? I ain't going into all of that. Whatever it is that you give is really just its accountability, right? Like how much do you want out of it? Um, how much are you willing to invest? Because the value that you put in, you determine the value of what you get out of it. I don't. All I can do is show up as I do and listen to you. Make sure to get what you're coming in for that. Making sure to get that to you and um yeah, like that's that's all I got.

00:34:19

Courtney Brame: That's all I can do in that 30 minutes of our time together. And then if we need more, it looks like. So yeah, man. I'm very much just riding a high right now of the good that's happening. And I encourage everybody else to do the same. I hope that y'all are taking care of yourselves. Herpes aside, man, just love people. Please, please love people. Um, it sound like some real hippie s*** today, don't it? I guess this is who I am. Like, I'm telling you, like my shoulders drop. I'm feeling more safe and secure in myself. I feel like this sense of freedom. I feel very loved on and supported by the people around me, man. And it's been rough. It's been a rough ass two months. It's been a rough two months and now there's light. There's light at the end of the of the tunnel. I'm in that. I've stepped into it. Like I'm looking back and I'm like, damn, that was a dark ass cave I was in. But now, we on the other side of it. So yeah, please hit me up. Uh mental health professionals, clinicians for these stigma-free trainings, inquiries. Um, I want to make this work. I want to make this accessible and available to everybody. uh and be able to get us better health care, better stigma-free, stigma minimization uh from our health practitioners to the general public as well as people who are living with herpes. So holla at me y'all that concludes this episode of Something Positive for Positive People. Please like, rate, review, share, subscribe to this podcast. I can't thank y'all enough for being part of it y'all. Until next time.

Transcription ended after 00:37:22